Comments on: Howard Zinn on anarchism and organizing

By: DJ

DJ — Thu, 22 May 2008 13:56:46 +0000

Bob: Read Toffler on Third Wave theory. “War and Anti-War” is a good introduction, and discusses the rise of 4GW before it had that name.

By: Bob Morris

Bob Morris — Thu, 22 May 2008 03:43:02 +0000

If an institution becomes huge and transnational, then it would seem to assume quasi-state powers and influence. Thus presenting many of teh same problems as a state.

By: John Couzin

John Couzin — Tue, 20 May 2008 17:46:44 +0000

I was not stating telephones as a mass population function, though it could become if the profit motive was removed. I was merely giving an example of an institution that can function across borders without the state.

By: DJ

DJ — Mon, 19 May 2008 14:24:56 +0000

John: I agree with you 100%– the state is both new and declining in importance. Globalized industry is one “innovation” replacing the state, and community-based organizations (and federations of communities) is the logical other.

I would however note that telephones have severe limitations when you’re talking global scale. The average number of telephones per capita in low income countries is 0.01, and in lower-middle-income countries 0.08. Much of the world’s population still lives outside the vast technological revolution we take for granted. In Sri Lanka (where I’ve spent a fair bit of time), if you want to contact a community, you ride the bus.

By: John Couzin

John Couzin — Sun, 18 May 2008 16:06:13 +0000

Radical is a must, community is the only way but the basis has to be non-authoritarian, free association, voluntary co-operation and mutual aid based on respect for each other and of course a sustainable society. What shape it takes will have to depend on those involved and the problem’s they face, there is no grand plan. I have never been a follower of Marx

By: Bob Morris

Bob Morris — Sun, 18 May 2008 14:12:00 +0000

John: John Robb, who wrote Brave New War, is working on a new book called Resilient Communities, sounds like what you’re talking about. He sees them as needed and necessary now, based on peak oil, global warming, and 4Gw and the hollowing out of states.

DJ: Alinsky is credited with being the first to do community organizing. Before that, organizing was done on issues or was trade-union based. His Rules For Radical remains a classic of organizing tactics and ideas.
(He was radical but not Marxist.)

By: John Couzin

John Couzin — Sun, 18 May 2008 09:24:35 +0000

The telephone systems and the post systems work across national borders, I would assume that there are plenty of ways of functioning without a state, the state is a relatively new organisation, it is a man made organisation so I don’t think it is beyond our imagination to come up with another form of structure. We can think outside the state and work on federated communities. Think inside the box and you’ll live and die inside the box.

By: DJ

DJ — Sun, 18 May 2008 03:26:28 +0000

Perhaps that’s your American model, then. It’d be nice if someone practiced politics that benefited the community for a change.

By: Bob Morris

Bob Morris — Sun, 18 May 2008 00:34:46 +0000

DJ: Sarvodaya sounds not unlike what Saul Alinsky did with Back of the Yards in Chicago in the 30’s. Community organizing that directly benefited the people involved.

By: Bob Morris

Bob Morris — Sun, 18 May 2008 00:29:22 +0000

John: But then, how do you manage the State? Institutions of some kind are necessary. Someone has to manage the electrical system, pick up the trash, etc.

How does anarchist theory deal with this?