Comments on: Anarchism and Christianity conference

By: DJ

DJ — Fri, 02 May 2008 19:41:20 +0000

To me, the arrogance seems to be highest in those who think they ARE God– the top of the food chain, the epitome of evolution, the species about whom everything revolves. Though this includes wayward theists, it appears far more common among the non-religious.

People have sensed and sought “Other” since earliest historic times, and though it’s often expressed as a desire to bargain with nature, those who persist inevitably find themselves humbled by that “Other.” True, it’s only my human experience– but it has vastly changed my life and moved me from a self-centered and self-destructive life to what I believe is a much improved consciousness. I’m not saying you must believe as I do– merely explaining why I believe that way. To each their own. Evangelicalism is unpretty in theists and atheists alike.

By: John Couzin

John Couzin — Thu, 01 May 2008 21:24:05 +0000

It is however your personal experience and is nothing more or nothing less and as a human you can’t be or do anything other than live the human condition, just as every other human has to do. To bring that “other” into the equation seems to me to introduce an arrogance that we as humans do not merit. We are not the chosen ones, we are evolved animals, its just that we have evolved in a different direction than that of other species.

By: DJ

DJ — Thu, 01 May 2008 18:20:31 +0000

As I say, call it what you want. I’m satisfied with my experience (though the explanation of that experience defies mere words).

By: john Couzin

john Couzin — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:15:21 +0000

There is no proof what so ever that what one person finds is not in us all, saints have become sinners and sinners have become saints, conditions and conditioning have a lot to do with it, how the human manifests itself is all in the human condition. You are bring in forces, voices, powers to justify the way you think, when in actual fact your thinking is really just the sum total of your personal experiences, probably with a little help from your genes. Obviously not all people will think alike as no two people have the very same personal experieces, conditioning and genes in exactly the same conditions. That “voice” that some people claim to hear seems to be no more than justification for what they believe to be a superior way of thinking. Others have heard voices calling on them to act in a completely different manner.

By: DJ

DJ — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:20:14 +0000

It is exactly that voice that allows us to speak from the heart– else why do some of us seek justice for others and other people (usually those in charge) promote injustice? What is it that causes us to see the suffering of our fellow humans when so many do not? Call it God or enlightenment or even higher conciousness, it makes no difference– there’s something that CAN be found that not all people find. If you get hung up on mere words (either theistic or anti-theistic), you’ll have missed it.

And yes, many who claim religion fail to find it, while many who don’t claim religion find it nonetheless.

By: John Couzin

John Couzin — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:01:21 +0000

Above, below, beyond, you pick your place or direction, I say it has to come from the human heart, it is not from somewhere out there, it is from within. That means that it is the human voice/mind/thoughts. The sooner we accept that the better and get rid of this idea that some people have access to some other special voice/power out there and therefore their opinion is of greater merit. It is as men speaking as men and speaking to men that we may be able to solve some of the problems that we as men have created.

By: DJ

DJ — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:50:59 +0000

If you think it’s from above, that may be why you can’t find it.

By: John Couzin

John Couzin — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:22:37 +0000

Do you personally take advantage of those weaker than you? If there are others who do not does that not tell you something? Quoting what somebody has written in some book or other is not vindication of a view held as you are no doubt aware that there will an equal number of opposing views printed. The struggle to remove feudalism and other forms of oppression has not been the prerogative of the religious. The cry for justice is from the human heart not from some imaginary voice from above.

By: DJ

DJ — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:35:04 +0000

“The condition of Man…is a condition of Warre of every one against every one.” — Thomas Hobbes, 1651.

In the absence of some higher authority, be it moral or legal, people put themselves first against all other people. That’s the root of our divisiveness– and many misuse religion to do it.

Do people demand justice? Yes– except those strong enough to have power over others. Only if there is a being stronger than those (again: moral or legal) can justice be served. In the absence of authority, we’d be left with feudalism.

By: John Couzin

John Couzin — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:13:02 +0000

What do most ordinary people ask of each other but justice. What the “Lord” said on the matter I couldn’t tell you as I only have some other man’s word for that.