Comments on: The bear growls http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/ Musings on politics: anti-war, global warming, peak oil and otherwise Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:26:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: DJ http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-146027 DJ Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:12:58 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-146027 Only if you charge it. Only if you charge it.

]]> By: Bob Morris http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-146019 Bob Morris Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:09:23 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-146019 Are you implying I don't need a solar powered wi-fi enabled waffle iron that can take directions from my cell phone? Are you implying I don’t need a solar powered wi-fi enabled waffle iron that can take directions from my cell phone?

]]> By: DJ http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-146010 DJ Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:19:11 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-146010 Unfortunately, the low-income family (along with the rest of us) has been bombarded with the message that buying consumer goods on credit is patriotic. Can you imagine our grandparents buying an X-box for the kids rather than paying off a debt? I can't. My grandmother, who remembered the Great Depression well, washed and reused her aluminum foil until the day she died. Unfortunately, the low-income family (along with the rest of us) has been bombarded with the message that buying consumer goods on credit is patriotic. Can you imagine our grandparents buying an X-box for the kids rather than paying off a debt? I can’t. My grandmother, who remembered the Great Depression well, washed and reused her aluminum foil until the day she died.

]]> By: Bob Morris http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-146003 Bob Morris Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:55:29 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-146003 We've both been more fortunate than most. A low-income family with a couple of kids with mom and dad working multiple minimum wage jobs doesn't really have much chance to get ahead and will be the first ones hurt. And yes, you've worked hard to get where you are. So have Sue and I. We'll b able to handle a financial storm or two. Many won't. We’ve both been more fortunate than most. A low-income family with a couple of kids with mom and dad working multiple minimum wage jobs doesn’t really have much chance to get ahead and will be the first ones hurt.

And yes, you’ve worked hard to get where you are. So have Sue and I. We’ll b able to handle a financial storm or two. Many won’t.

]]> By: DJ http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-146001 DJ Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:20:58 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-146001 "what about those now living paycheck to paycheck working at a Wal-Mart, and they start laying off next year." Our household income is well below median (and it was when we lived in CA, too), yet we've made choices that allowed us to put money into savings and assets rather than credit card interest and consumables. There are very few Americans NOT living beyond their means. It's become a cultural way of life. There are a very few for whom this is unavoidable-- but most of us would be better off saving and investing for the future, or at least paying off debt, than buying new Nikes and X-boxes. (And for those who are stealing their new Nikes, they should catch a clue from our politicians and steal something of more lasting value.) “what about those now living paycheck to paycheck working at a Wal-Mart, and they start laying off next year.”

Our household income is well below median (and it was when we lived in CA, too), yet we’ve made choices that allowed us to put money into savings and assets rather than credit card interest and consumables.

There are very few Americans NOT living beyond their means. It’s become a cultural way of life. There are a very few for whom this is unavoidable– but most of us would be better off saving and investing for the future, or at least paying off debt, than buying new Nikes and X-boxes. (And for those who are stealing their new Nikes, they should catch a clue from our politicians and steal something of more lasting value.)

]]> By: Paul Engler http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-145996 Paul Engler Sun, 02 Dec 2007 16:52:02 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-145996 My father has been dead for almost fifty years. He predicted almost everthing that has happened. Of course he never envisioned " sub-prime" or any of the hokus pokus terms that are going arround now such as derrivites and options but he knew about crooks and liars of which he was never one. He never had any idea how many there were. I did not either but if I had to make an estimate I would include most of the Repukelican party, the bankers, the Bilderburghers and everybody who voted for Bush, Cheny et al. I apoligise to my country for not having done everything in my limited power to prevent what has happened to this wonderful world. I am regretably, OLD PAUL My father has been dead for almost fifty years. He predicted almost everthing that has happened. Of course he never envisioned ” sub-prime” or any of the hokus pokus terms that are going arround now such as derrivites and options but he knew about crooks and liars of which he was never one. He never had any idea how many there were. I did not either but if I had to make an estimate I would include most of the Repukelican party, the bankers, the Bilderburghers and everybody who voted for Bush, Cheny et al. I apoligise to my country for not having done everything in my limited power to prevent what has happened to this wonderful world. I am regretably, OLD PAUL

]]> By: Bob Morris http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-145990 Bob Morris Sun, 02 Dec 2007 04:47:34 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-145990 > I don’t think Adam Smith or Karl Marx ever envisioned a type of capitalism that uses its excess production for casino type speculation and never ending bubbles. Well put. > I’d like to see people avoid financial disaster. One of my grandfathers was a banker and one of the very few who saw the Crash coming. He battened down every hatch he could, took some financial whacks when the Crash came, but basically survived intact. Of course, he had assets to lose, but what about those now living paycheck to paycheck working at a Wal-Mart, and they start laying off next year. > I don’t think Adam Smith or Karl Marx ever envisioned a type of capitalism that uses its excess production for casino type speculation and never ending bubbles.

Well put.

> I’d like to see people avoid financial disaster.

One of my grandfathers was a banker and one of the very few who saw the Crash coming. He battened down every hatch he could, took some financial whacks when the Crash came, but basically survived intact.

Of course, he had assets to lose, but what about those now living paycheck to paycheck working at a Wal-Mart, and they start laying off next year.

]]> By: DJ http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-145986 DJ Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:18:52 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-145986 Something to keep in mind: during the Great Depression, about 60% of America was plunged into poverty or near-poverty. But 40% were affected either mildly or not at all. Whatever lies around the corner for us, the effects are likely to be the same: we're not ALL screwed, but a lot of people will be. And Lonelyoakwitch is right: in many cases, people have done this to themselves through wishful thinking and lack of fiscal responsibility. My family is solvent-- because we made a decision to be-- and if things don't get too bad, we're likely to stay that way. Don't get me wrong: I'd like to see people avoid financial disaster. But that takes changes in behavior. I've worked to teach others what I learned the hard way in the last real estate crash (1990-91). But too few are willing to make the effort to change-- and now it may be too late. Hopefully, when the dust settles, we'll have a nation that's gained a new respect for financial responsibility. Something to keep in mind: during the Great Depression, about 60% of America was plunged into poverty or near-poverty. But 40% were affected either mildly or not at all. Whatever lies around the corner for us, the effects are likely to be the same: we’re not ALL screwed, but a lot of people will be.

And Lonelyoakwitch is right: in many cases, people have done this to themselves through wishful thinking and lack of fiscal responsibility. My family is solvent– because we made a decision to be– and if things don’t get too bad, we’re likely to stay that way.

Don’t get me wrong: I’d like to see people avoid financial disaster. But that takes changes in behavior. I’ve worked to teach others what I learned the hard way in the last real estate crash (1990-91). But too few are willing to make the effort to change– and now it may be too late. Hopefully, when the dust settles, we’ll have a nation that’s gained a new respect for financial responsibility.

]]> By: Steve Harrington http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-145979 Steve Harrington Sat, 01 Dec 2007 18:24:03 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-145979 The dollar is overvalued, as are most corporate stocks. As long as the people in Asia are willing to work their butts off to make our consumer products and use the dollars they earn to buy dollar valued assets, we are living well. Once they figure out they have been duped and start dumping their dollars, we are in for a bit of an adventure. I don't think Adam Smith or Karl Marx ever envisioned a type of capitalism that has uses its excess production for casino type speculation and never ending bubbles. At this point the economy is 20% financial services and only 13% manufacturing, so the cart is leading the horse. It will be interesting to see what happens. Steve The dollar is overvalued, as are most corporate stocks. As long as the people in Asia are willing to work their butts off to make our consumer products and use the dollars they earn to buy dollar valued assets, we are living well. Once they figure out they have been duped and start dumping their dollars, we are in for a bit of an adventure.
I don’t think Adam Smith or Karl Marx ever envisioned a type of capitalism that has uses its excess production for casino type speculation and never ending bubbles. At this point the economy is 20% financial services and only 13% manufacturing, so the cart is leading the horse.
It will be interesting to see what happens.

Steve

]]> By: Bob Morris http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/comment-page-1/#comment-145973 Bob Morris Sat, 01 Dec 2007 14:04:27 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/11/29/the-bear-growls/#comment-145973 Joe / Ricky Right now, the major concern is credit - everyone is jumpy and doesn't want to lend, especially not to someone who might become insolvent. So the credit crisis does lead into the insolvency question. Most of the big investment banks have enormous amounts of this now worthless toxic sludge that will have to come on their books soon. But without free flowing credit, things just slow down and get frozen up. Bond reinsurers are also being examined. If their ratings gets downgraded, everything they insure does too. This would be catastrophic. Yes, people who used home equity as an ATM thinking prices would rise forever are screwed. Lonelyoakwitch Absolutely, we all need to do whatever we can, not get gloomy, batten down whatever financial hatches we have. So, I don't think we're all screwed, but that things are going to get bumpy, especially for those who didn't see it coming. Joe / Ricky

Right now, the major concern is credit - everyone is jumpy and doesn’t want to lend, especially not to someone who might become insolvent. So the credit crisis does lead into the insolvency question. Most of the big investment banks have enormous amounts of this now worthless toxic sludge that will have to come on their books soon. But without free flowing credit, things just slow down and get frozen up.

Bond reinsurers are also being examined. If their ratings gets downgraded, everything they insure does too. This would be catastrophic.

Yes, people who used home equity as an ATM thinking prices would rise forever are screwed.

Lonelyoakwitch

Absolutely, we all need to do whatever we can, not get gloomy, batten down whatever financial hatches we have. So, I don’t think we’re all screwed, but that things are going to get bumpy, especially for those who didn’t see it coming.

]]>