Comments on: Sicko http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/ Musings on politics: anti-war, global warming, peak oil and otherwise Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:45:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Michael Johnson http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139137 Michael Johnson Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:44:08 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139137 I don't understand why Michael Moore thinks hearsay obtained via John Erlichmann (who worked for Nixon, for goodness sake?!) should be accorded evidentiary status. Edgar Kaiser's advice regarding the HMO Act is in the Congressional Record, and it's totally inconsistent with the Erlichmann characterization that Moore portrays in the movie. Moreover, by the time that Erlichmann and Nixon got with their "design" for HMO-based healthcare, Kaiser Permanente didn't even qualify as an HMO! With respect to the information from KaiserWatch, that web site plays as fast and loose with the facts as Michael Moore. KP's health plan (the non-profit) was purposely separated from the physician groups in order to make SURE that accountants don't ever get to interfere with medical decisions (a serious problem with "regular" HMO's). The Permanente physicians are not employed by the health plan, and that's a GOOD thing! Lastly, with respect to labor policies and relations, KP has become a model - its decade-old Labor Management Partnership is a model for other healthcare organizations and industries. I'm not saying that KP doesn't have its share of problems, or that US healthcare isn't a mess (it is!). But Moore's movie is really uninformed and unfair with respect to Kaiser Permanente. There are plenty of real bad actors in US healthcare (can you say HealthSouth?!) - Kaiser Permanente is not one of them! I don’t understand why Michael Moore thinks hearsay obtained via John Erlichmann (who worked for Nixon, for goodness sake?!) should be accorded evidentiary status. Edgar Kaiser’s advice regarding the HMO Act is in the Congressional Record, and it’s totally inconsistent with the Erlichmann characterization that Moore portrays in the movie. Moreover, by the time that Erlichmann and Nixon got with their “design” for HMO-based healthcare, Kaiser Permanente didn’t even qualify as an HMO! With respect to the information from KaiserWatch, that web site plays as fast and loose with the facts as Michael Moore. KP’s health plan (the non-profit) was purposely separated from the physician groups in order to make SURE that accountants don’t ever get to interfere with medical decisions (a serious problem with “regular” HMO’s). The Permanente physicians are not employed by the health plan, and that’s a GOOD thing! Lastly, with respect to labor policies and relations, KP has become a model - its decade-old Labor Management Partnership is a model for other healthcare organizations and industries. I’m not saying that KP doesn’t have its share of problems, or that US healthcare isn’t a mess (it is!). But Moore’s movie is really uninformed and unfair with respect to Kaiser Permanente. There are plenty of real bad actors in US healthcare (can you say HealthSouth?!) - Kaiser Permanente is not one of them!

]]> By: DJ http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139130 DJ Sun, 01 Jul 2007 14:49:01 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139130 So, just to clarify, when I was insured by Kaiser Permanente and paid only $10 to see a doctor, was I seeing a for-profit doctor paid by my non-profit insurance? Which entity runs the pharmacies that gave me $5K+ in meds for $125? Doesn't sound like a profitable venture! (Or is this again some combination for for-profit and non-profit?) My ex-wife just yesterday gave Kaiser another glowing recommendation: they diagnosed and operated on a cancer, the symptoms of which she'd been complaining about to her former (non-Kaiser) doctor for four years without having them addressed. She agrees with me that SOME people may have bad experiences with Kaiser, but that's not the norm. OTOH, many people have bad experiences with for-profit health care, too. Show me an ER without a wait and I'll show you a small, rural community. So, just to clarify, when I was insured by Kaiser Permanente and paid only $10 to see a doctor, was I seeing a for-profit doctor paid by my non-profit insurance?

Which entity runs the pharmacies that gave me $5K+ in meds for $125? Doesn’t sound like a profitable venture! (Or is this again some combination for for-profit and non-profit?)

My ex-wife just yesterday gave Kaiser another glowing recommendation: they diagnosed and operated on a cancer, the symptoms of which she’d been complaining about to her former (non-Kaiser) doctor for four years without having them addressed. She agrees with me that SOME people may have bad experiences with Kaiser, but that’s not the norm.

OTOH, many people have bad experiences with for-profit health care, too. Show me an ER without a wait and I’ll show you a small, rural community.

]]> By: "Kaiser corparate employee (ret)" http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139129 "Kaiser corparate employee (ret)" Sun, 01 Jul 2007 06:25:14 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139129 Eli, sorry you have been misinformed... Kaiser is three separate company's Kaiser Hospitals " Real estate" Non- Profit Kaiser Health Plan "insurance " Non Profit Permanente Medical Groups "MD's " For Profit Eli, sorry you have been misinformed…

Kaiser is three separate company’s

Kaiser Hospitals ” Real estate” Non- Profit
Kaiser Health Plan “insurance ” Non Profit
Permanente Medical Groups “MD’s ” For Profit

]]> By: Lisa http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139099 Lisa Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:00:08 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139099 In my previous post, the long url I posted did not show up. So, here it is, shorter: http://www.hbindependent.com/opinion/ In my previous post, the long url I posted did not show up.

So, here it is, shorter:
http://www.hbindependent.com/opinion/

]]> By: Lisa http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139098 Lisa Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:56:58 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139098 Here is a great opinion piece by Orange County Green, Vern Nelson, taking on State Sen. Tam Harman's trashing of "Sicko". SOUNDING OFF: 'SiCKO' commentary needs reality check According to Vern.... In the print version they illustrated it with a cartoon -- a little silly but it seems sympathetic. Entitled "two approaches to healthcare", it features a picture of Michael Moore captioned "Moore" and a picture of a pinched-up, scroogy Harman captioned "Less" Here is a great opinion piece by Orange County Green, Vern Nelson,
taking on State Sen. Tam Harman’s trashing of “Sicko”.

SOUNDING OFF:
‘SiCKO’ commentary needs reality check

According to Vern….

In the print version they illustrated it with a cartoon — a
little silly but it seems sympathetic. Entitled “two
approaches to healthcare”, it features a picture of Michael
Moore captioned “Moore” and a picture of a pinched-up, scroogy
Harman captioned “Less”

]]> By: Eli Stephens http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139083 Eli Stephens Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:48:34 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/06/27/sicko/#comment-139083 I'm a little confused here. Kaiser is a <i>non-profit</i>. I’m a little confused here. Kaiser is a non-profit.

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