Comments on: Traffic in L.A. A city unclear on the concept http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-a-city-unclear-on-the-concept/ Musings on politics: anti-war, global warming, peak oil and otherwise Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:06:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Susan Wiedem http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-a-city-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-72979 Susan Wiedem Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:34:24 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-the-city-is-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-72979 The solution must be economically equal. It cant be something that only alters the habits of the middle and lower class because they cant afford the fees or tolls, such as some of the suggestions I read on Sunday offered by our hummer driving friend - fees for driving in congested areas!. It has to impact the wealthiest as well. If you have tolls/gas increases/fees for driving in congested areas/increased parking - it must be based on a persons ability to pay. If a system is used where you drive on odd or even days based on your license, people with additional cars should be assessed a fee. Consider crosswalks in some areas where all cars stop while pedestrians walk as they have in Europe - (Beverly Hills as well?) So when cars get the green they can move instead of waiting for pedestrians. The solution must be economically equal. It cant be something that only alters the habits of the middle and lower class because they cant afford the fees or tolls, such as some of the suggestions I read on Sunday offered by our hummer driving friend - fees for driving in congested areas!. It has to impact the wealthiest as well. If you have tolls/gas increases/fees for driving in congested areas/increased parking - it must be based on a persons ability to pay. If a system is used where you drive on odd or even days based on your license, people with additional cars should be assessed a fee. Consider crosswalks in some areas where all cars stop while pedestrians walk as they have in Europe - (Beverly Hills as well?) So when cars get the green they can move instead of waiting for pedestrians.

]]> By: DJ http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-a-city-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-67885 DJ Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:16:47 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-the-city-is-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-67885 Bob wrote, "it routinely takes 30 minutes to drive 5 miles during the late afternoon." Are you kidding? It can take 45 minutes to go 8 miles from Santa Monica to Westchester at 10:00 on a Sunday night! There is no time of day safe from "rush hour." My recent visit (I'm an escapee from LA) showed no signs of improvement. I don't see how more freeways can fix this. Unless the amount of pavement drastically increases, there's just no place to put that many cars. Meanwhile, more buildings continue to be built (e.g. Playa Vista off Jefefrson Boulevard) but streets are not widened to accomodate the thousands of new and newly-concentrated residents. Bob wrote, “it routinely takes 30 minutes to drive 5 miles during the late afternoon.”

Are you kidding? It can take 45 minutes to go 8 miles from Santa Monica to Westchester at 10:00 on a Sunday night! There is no time of day safe from “rush hour.” My recent visit (I’m an escapee from LA) showed no signs of improvement.

I don’t see how more freeways can fix this. Unless the amount of pavement drastically increases, there’s just no place to put that many cars. Meanwhile, more buildings continue to be built (e.g. Playa Vista off Jefefrson Boulevard) but streets are not widened to accomodate the thousands of new and newly-concentrated residents.

]]> By: Joe Hartley http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-a-city-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-67738 Joe Hartley Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:37:49 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-the-city-is-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-67738 The major reason was that it was in desparate need of capital infusion at a time where having and driving a care was a symbol of social status. (Gas, also for those of you too young to remember it, was only about 20 cents a gallon.) The various systems were rickety and didn't integrate well at all into a car-based society. Was it foolish to abandon them? You bet. But people's vision of the future is rarely clear, let alone prescient. The major reason was that it was in desparate need of capital infusion at a time where having and driving a care was a symbol of social status. (Gas, also for those of you too young to remember it, was only about 20 cents a gallon.) The various systems were rickety and didn’t integrate well at all into a car-based society. Was it foolish to abandon them? You bet. But people’s vision of the future is rarely clear, let alone prescient.

]]> By: Davide Simonetti http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-a-city-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-67582 Davide Simonetti Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:25:00 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-the-city-is-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-67582 The old trolly system of LA is fascinating to <a href="http://www.usc.edu/libraries/archives/la/historic/redcars/" rel="nofollow">read about</a>. Why it was abandoned in favour of freeways is beyond me. The old trolly system of LA is fascinating to read about. Why it was abandoned in favour of freeways is beyond me.

]]> By: Joe Hartley http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-a-city-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-67475 Joe Hartley Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:08:02 +0000 http://polizeros.com/2007/01/09/traffic-in-la-the-city-is-unclear-on-the-concept/#comment-67475 While Mike Davis is always an interesting read, he's not gospel, and he's wrong about the LA Transportation system. The major problem with the LA transportation systems was that it was never implemented completely. When designed, it anticipated that no place would ever be more than a couple of miles from a freeway. Streets were scheduled to be redesigned for changeable lane flow, and the system was actually pretty sophisticated about how it would respond to freeway backups. The freeways followed pretty much the routes of the old Red Cars, which failed in no small part because they had never been properly integrated with the automobile. (Example: one of the original inter-urban lines ran through Hollywood before there was anything much there besides beanfields and grape arbors. What did the idiot city fathers do when the built a road? Built it so the railway ran right down the middle of the road, thus guaranteeing problems between interurban users and the automobile.) BTW,if you think traffic NOW is bad, read about the traffic jams downtown in the late teens and early twenties where there were enough automobiles to make life, well, interesting. The problem with the freeway design wasn't a spoke model; it's that most of the connector lines never got build. For example, an integral part of the freeway was to follow Santa Monica Boulevard where it intersects the San Diego Freeway in Westwood and go up through Beverly Hills, West Hollywood, and Hollywood along the base of the Santa Monica mountains. Never got built because of NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) from Beverly Hills. Ditto a bunch of others, and, of course, the City of LA never integrated its traffic grid with the freeways. The story is fascinating, but a lot more complex than Davis lets on. While Mike Davis is always an interesting read, he’s not gospel, and he’s wrong about the LA Transportation system.

The major problem with the LA transportation systems was that it was never implemented completely. When designed, it anticipated that no place would ever be more than a couple of miles from a freeway. Streets were scheduled to be redesigned for changeable lane flow, and the system was actually pretty sophisticated about how it would respond to freeway backups.

The freeways followed pretty much the routes of the old Red Cars, which failed in no small part because they had never been properly integrated with the automobile. (Example: one of the original inter-urban lines ran through Hollywood before there was anything much there besides beanfields and grape arbors. What did the idiot city fathers do when the built a road? Built it so the railway ran right down the middle of the road, thus guaranteeing problems between interurban users and the automobile.) BTW,if you think traffic NOW is bad, read about the traffic jams downtown in the late teens and early twenties where there were enough automobiles to make life, well, interesting.

The problem with the freeway design wasn’t a spoke model; it’s that most of the connector lines never got build. For example, an integral part of the freeway was to follow Santa Monica Boulevard where it intersects the San Diego Freeway in Westwood and go up through Beverly Hills, West Hollywood, and Hollywood along the base of the Santa Monica mountains. Never got built because of NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) from Beverly Hills. Ditto a bunch of others, and, of course, the City of LA never integrated its traffic grid with the freeways. The story is fascinating, but a lot more complex than Davis lets on.

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